With a storytelling flair remniscient of Amos Tutuola, Abubakar Imam, Flora Nwapa, and Zainab Alkali, nurse and writer Changchit Wuyep spins a tale about a Sinbad-like hero, Jiji, that is rooted in the worldview of the Tarok people of Plateau State:
In one of the worst storms ever seen in the village of Jangnap, a child is born who will bring both misfortune and deliverance his people. Claimed by a river goddess who will not be appeased, the child is miraculously saved from drowning by a gorilla and is raised by mountain people, propelled from one adventure to another by multiple warring gods, who desire him as their champion. The novel takes the form of a journey in which the hero and his faithful gorilla companion are pulled between two forces of dark and light, the water goddess and the mountain god. While given supernatural forces by the gods, his strong sense of justice comes from what he has learned in his years of travel in the mountains, the forest, the desert, and the sea, and his interaction with hermits and villagers, spirits and gods. After having grown from an infant to a man, Jiji arrives back to Jangnap. It is his sense of justice learned of his wanderings, even more than the gifts of the god, that bolsters him in his final battle against oppression.
Conversation 2 August 2008 with Changchit Wuyep, the author of Jiji
Changchit Wuyep is an author and a midwife working with the Plateau State Hospital Management Board.
T-C: Could you tell me a little bit about how you came to write the book.
CW: Well, I used to be so much interested in stories when we were children. Our mother used to entertain us a lot with folklore. As I grew up, I became interested, wanting to know more about the culture of our people. That is why I decided to go around to some major tribes in Plateau State to get to know more about their culture, especially that of the Tarok people.
T-C: So, in this book you tell the story of a child who was lost and who was raised in part by a gorilla and in part by people who found him, and goes on this long journey. How much of this are stories that you’d heard before and how much is something that you made up?
CW: Actually, the entire story is made up. You know, I used to be an avid reader of stories, so one day I just decided that why don’t I, too, write something that somebody will buy and then read? That I will have pride if I see somebody reading my own work. That was why I sat down and constructed the whole thing.
T-C: So it’s a story that you made up entirely?
CW: I made up the whole thing.
T-C: You mentioned that you enjoyed reading a lot of books. What would you say are books that are your influences, or books that you have enjoyed reading?
CW: The Land of A Thousand and One Nights.
T-C: Ok, I saw reflections of that!
CW: And then, I did read some Shakespeare too. I have read the Complete Works of Shakespeare, but most especially The Land of A Thousand and One Nights. That is the one that had a great impact on me.
T-C: What about Hausa novels. Have you read, like, Abubakar Imam?
CW: Yes, I read the story, of, somebody the Blind Storyteller, is it Malam Shehu the Blind Storyteller? I can’t remember the author of that book. You know, we read that one so long ago in primary school, over 30 years ago.
T-C: Did you read Ruwan Bagaja or Magana Jari Ce by Abubakar Imam?
CW: I have not come across those novels. You know I have problems understanding Hausa grammar. That is why I have not read many of their books.
T-C: What about films. Have there been any films that have influenced you?
CW: No, most of my working life has been in the rural area. So I hardly watch films, so to say.
T-C: Did you ever read the Jungle Book by Rudyard Kipling?
CW: Jungle Book? No.
T-C: No? That’s interesting. The novel reminded me a little bit of that because that’s another one about a child that is abandoned in the forest and is raised by animals and grows up…. So you mentioned that a lot of information came from your brother. Could you tell me a little bit about the cultures that are represented in the book?
CW: Like icir? That icir is more or less the kind of magical thing. It is demonic in origin, because although I never went near, there was an instance that it happened in our village. Somebody was pounded to a pulp in a mortor. And you know, after pounding, this same human being, they would make some incantations and surprisingly the man would just get up. But like you saw recorded in that book, if there happens to be an enemy around and he is more powerful, he will make their powers fail until they go and beg him. And even then, he has to agree before that person so pounded will come back to life. So, there are a lot of demonic influences there. But the icir is a wooden effigy, a short wooden effigy. I saw it once.
T-C: So, in the book, Jiji is Tarok?
CW: Jiji is Tarok.
T-C: What are the other cultures he encounters in his journey around?
CW: Well, like I said, the Tarok Culture, which he came to I think at the tail end or so. He started with the Ankwai culture. The Ankwai are our nearest neighbors south. And as you can say they have this Nienman as their major goddess that they worship…. You saw something recorded about this anthill. That is the dwelling place of their god. Normally they have different ways of worship that we’ve seen recorded there. A masquerade will interview women. Women have to come confess everything they have done in life. Interestingly, the men do not confess anything. It is only the women that will line up, and even then they will have half a chicken in their hand, and they will begin to confess everything they have done. I am trying to remember the name of that anthill. It has a name: Matkarem. That is their goddess that they worship.
T-C: And is Patmala [the river goddess who plays a large role in the novel] an actual goddess?
CW: Patmala is somebody that exists only in my imagination, and nowhere else (laughs)
T-C: It seems to fit in with other stories of mammy water spirits and that sort of things. What about the mountain god?
CW: Gungun? Gungun was made up by myself. I just made him up.
T-C: That’s very interesting because there seemed to be a struggle between him and Patmala.
CW:Between him and Patmala. Yes. There are over three of them. Like Nienman. Patmala and Gungun. They were all interested in him, but the two major characters in his life are Patmala and Gungun…. You know there is one interesting thing about the culture of our people here. I don’t know if you noticed that. Because if any food is being prepared for a god or goddess, they normally have a particular grindstone, and there is a law guiding the rule of that grindstone. It is not anything that you grind on it—you only grind what will be used for that occasion. And once it is over, it is kept aside, waiting for the next occasion when it will be used. So that is peculiar to most of our people on the southern plateau.
T-C: So, the Tarok people, where exactly on the Plateau do they live?
CW: We are on the lower Plateau. And interestingly Tarok—Langtang is the only local government that has a single tribe. Like in Jos here you have the Burim, the Miango, the Naraguta. But in both Langtang north and south, it is only Tarok people. And they are non-warriors. Ask anybody around. Although… they say we are too proud, we are too this, we are too that.
T-C: So in the stories that you heard growing up, were there elements of this at well? Were there any specific parts of those stories that you put in the novel?
CW: No, in fact I just sat down one day and imagined all this thing.
T-C: How long did it take you to write?
CW: It took me over a year. The reason is that as I was writing, it came to the point where Poyi, one of the characters that shaped Jiji’s life, you know, it came to the point where they had to separate. He had to die. And I couldn’t find it in my heart to write that, even though it is fiction. So it took me months before I made up my mind and wrote it. Then later on, I felt that the whole thing was not worth anybody’s time. So I just kept the book aside, until my daughter disturbed me so much that I had to pick it up and complete the story.
T-C: So that was in…?
CW: I wrote this since 1990. I wrote this in 1990 and put it aside….The reason I left it for so long—you see that is why piracy is a very wicked thing—there was this Swedish man who said he was interested in it. So, at the time that he came, I gave this script to somebody to edit for me. Each time the man would come to Nigeria, I would go to him to give me and he would say, no, he has not finished working on it. He came the second time, the same thing. So, the third time when the man sent for me, I went and said, ok, you say you are not finished, just give me the script the way it was. He said, no, his secretary had taken it somewhere, and he couldn’t get it. It was not until the [Swedish] man was banned from Nigeria, because he went and produced The Man Died with Wole Soyinka—so it was when he was banned from entering Nigeria—that was when the man came and gave me the script. Not knowing that he himself is interested in it. He asked me to come that we should make a film with it, but I refused. Originally, we made it as a film script. It was the late Mandazi [sp?] who advised me to publish it as a book.
T-C: Would you be interested in having it made as a film now?
CW: Yes, in fact, originally, I wrote it as a film script.
T-C: Do you still have the original script that you wrote?
CW: My house got burnt, nearly got burnt one time. So the whole original script was burnt. If not because this one was with that man, the whole thing would have been burnt.
T-C: So, at least that helped!
CW: Well, it turned out to be a blessing in the end.
T-C: Wow, sorry. Yes, I was thinking as I read this. This would make a nice film, or an animated film, or--
CW: I just took it to this--I don’t know if you know the late Mandazi [sp?], the one that used to produce Behind the Clouds, the soap opera. He is the one that said, no, that I should make it a book, if not, people would pirate it, and I would be left high and dry.
T-C: So maybe if you do the book first and then someone does a film from the book?
CW: Yes, that is what he said. So, if only I can be connected to any of the Film Corporation. Reputable ones, I would be very happy.
T-C: Well, you know if it is published, maybe someone will want to make a film from it, even a children’s film. Even though it’s not a children’s book, I think it could make a film that would be appropriate for children to watch…
CW: You are the tenth person or more that has been telling me this. You know most of the people who read it say “make it into a film, now!” And about five people approached me one day, just in one day, and said that I should write a part two of this thing. That this one is not complete according to them. So I am already on chapter six—Jiji part two. So, this one will be printed as Jiji part one.
T-C: So part two, is that about his marriage and his life after?
CW: Yes, his marriage, and the exodus. You remember I mentioned one island there. So, it will terminate when the whole people settle on the island.
T-C: The other thing I wanted to ask you about. The songs in the book. Did you write the songs or were those Tarok songs?
CW: I wrote the songs. You can see that it is a challenge. I explained that the song is praising Jiji and teasing the dwarf, Nwaka.
T-C: Have you ever written in Tarok or Hausa, or just in English?
CW: Just in English. Actually I am working on [another] one. This one I aim at helping youths to come out of drug addiction, all these things by exposing the ills, I use characters to expose ills.
T-C: Is it a more contemporary story?
CW: Yes.
T-C: So, you have the new project. You have part two of this. Do you have any other works in progress?
CW: I have others in the offing. It’s just to find the time to sit down and finish them. Most of my energy is geared towards finishing the one I am telling you about. Because I hate the way you find children being involved in drugs and so on. So we are working on it with consultants at JUTH, Dr. Audu.
T-C: So what is a brief summary of the story?
CW: I just used characters to depict the various type of drugs, their complications, you understand? The effect on the youth. I used even alcohol, so that the children, as they read, they will see that from drugs, they don’t only end with drugs alone. They either become armed robbers, ritual killers, or even occultic members. They are initiated into most of these things as a result of taking drugs. So, I’ve used different drugs to depict their own peculiar complication. For example, you know this solution that they take, it results in blindness sometimes. Or the Indian hemp, sometimes they go mad, or they even die as a result. I have done some research into various means of how the youth are now taking drugs. You may be with them, but you won’t know-- I can be transacting business with the person around me and not even know that I have just been transacting business. So those are some of the things that I depicted in that write-up, although I have not finished working on it.
T-C: Do you have any other write-ups that you are in the process of working on?
CW: That one and Jiji Part Two, and there is another one, Safiya. In that one I aim to depict the ill effect of unforgiveness. It is going to be good. I know I am the one writing it, but I know it will be good. (laughs) I am on chapter seven, but I will stop that one. I want to finish the others. I have finished my life story. It is called Silent Tears Turned Amazing Grace. I am just waiting for some events to unfold, then I will just complete the book. And I have about twenty songs written down. I am looking for children with whom we can rehearse these things. But money is a problem…. I brought a copy of a song last time [to Jos ANA] to show the people there. That one is very close to my heart. You know I am a children’s evangelist, so I like to do things that will help them. Maybe one day, I will bring some of them for you to see. I have written the “Widow’s Song”, “An Orphan’s Song,” then the “Children’s Plea,” and “Wakar Nijeriya,”—this one is in Hausa. And many others songs about social vices.
T-C: Do you write a lot of songs in Hausa?
CW: Most of them are in Hausa, about social vices. But I need someone to help me, and being in rural areas is a problem.
T-C: When I was reading Jiji, I felt that the rural area really came out. There was a nice sense of the landscape in the book…. So, you’ve talked about things that you want to help people learn, are there lessons in Jiji that you want to bring out?
CW: Well, the lesson in Jiji is. I want people to know that evil is not good. For example, when you read about the Long Pell. And you see the end of it, and some of the comments that Jiji made. He said that he is a friend of the poor but an enemy of the oppressor. That is the lesson of Jiji.
T-C: So, even though Jiji was set in precolonial times, do you feel that there were things that relate to contemporary life?
CW: Only the lesson that you learn from it. Otherwise, I don’t think there is anything that relates. But I also want people to know that in those days this is how the Tarok people are. For example, if you see the dressing of that man [in a photograph she wants to use as the cover for the next edition]. The children will now know that, eh, so this is how our people used to dress. Bows and arrows. Some of them have even forgotten about it. Icir. Most of them don’t know. Odem. Things like that. If you go to Tarok land now, you will hardly see idire. There is something mentioned there: idire. So this will now motivate them to ask what is edire, what is esu? That kind of thing.
T-C: So it kind of teaches them their history?
CW: Ehen
T-C: Well you did a very good job of that. It taught me something. Thank you very much.
In one of the worst storms ever seen in the village of Jangnap, a child is born who will bring both misfortune and deliverance his people. Claimed by a river goddess who will not be appeased, the child is miraculously saved from drowning by a gorilla and is raised by mountain people, propelled from one adventure to another by multiple warring gods, who desire him as their champion. The novel takes the form of a journey in which the hero and his faithful gorilla companion are pulled between two forces of dark and light, the water goddess and the mountain god. While given supernatural forces by the gods, his strong sense of justice comes from what he has learned in his years of travel in the mountains, the forest, the desert, and the sea, and his interaction with hermits and villagers, spirits and gods. After having grown from an infant to a man, Jiji arrives back to Jangnap. It is his sense of justice learned of his wanderings, even more than the gifts of the god, that bolsters him in his final battle against oppression.
Conversation 2 August 2008 with Changchit Wuyep, the author of Jiji
Changchit Wuyep is an author and a midwife working with the Plateau State Hospital Management Board.
T-C: Could you tell me a little bit about how you came to write the book.
CW: Well, I used to be so much interested in stories when we were children. Our mother used to entertain us a lot with folklore. As I grew up, I became interested, wanting to know more about the culture of our people. That is why I decided to go around to some major tribes in Plateau State to get to know more about their culture, especially that of the Tarok people.
T-C: So, in this book you tell the story of a child who was lost and who was raised in part by a gorilla and in part by people who found him, and goes on this long journey. How much of this are stories that you’d heard before and how much is something that you made up?
CW: Actually, the entire story is made up. You know, I used to be an avid reader of stories, so one day I just decided that why don’t I, too, write something that somebody will buy and then read? That I will have pride if I see somebody reading my own work. That was why I sat down and constructed the whole thing.
T-C: So it’s a story that you made up entirely?
CW: I made up the whole thing.
T-C: You mentioned that you enjoyed reading a lot of books. What would you say are books that are your influences, or books that you have enjoyed reading?
CW: The Land of A Thousand and One Nights.
T-C: Ok, I saw reflections of that!
CW: And then, I did read some Shakespeare too. I have read the Complete Works of Shakespeare, but most especially The Land of A Thousand and One Nights. That is the one that had a great impact on me.
T-C: What about Hausa novels. Have you read, like, Abubakar Imam?
CW: Yes, I read the story, of, somebody the Blind Storyteller, is it Malam Shehu the Blind Storyteller? I can’t remember the author of that book. You know, we read that one so long ago in primary school, over 30 years ago.
T-C: Did you read Ruwan Bagaja or Magana Jari Ce by Abubakar Imam?
CW: I have not come across those novels. You know I have problems understanding Hausa grammar. That is why I have not read many of their books.
T-C: What about films. Have there been any films that have influenced you?
CW: No, most of my working life has been in the rural area. So I hardly watch films, so to say.
T-C: Did you ever read the Jungle Book by Rudyard Kipling?
CW: Jungle Book? No.
T-C: No? That’s interesting. The novel reminded me a little bit of that because that’s another one about a child that is abandoned in the forest and is raised by animals and grows up…. So you mentioned that a lot of information came from your brother. Could you tell me a little bit about the cultures that are represented in the book?
CW: Like icir? That icir is more or less the kind of magical thing. It is demonic in origin, because although I never went near, there was an instance that it happened in our village. Somebody was pounded to a pulp in a mortor. And you know, after pounding, this same human being, they would make some incantations and surprisingly the man would just get up. But like you saw recorded in that book, if there happens to be an enemy around and he is more powerful, he will make their powers fail until they go and beg him. And even then, he has to agree before that person so pounded will come back to life. So, there are a lot of demonic influences there. But the icir is a wooden effigy, a short wooden effigy. I saw it once.
T-C: So, in the book, Jiji is Tarok?
CW: Jiji is Tarok.
T-C: What are the other cultures he encounters in his journey around?
CW: Well, like I said, the Tarok Culture, which he came to I think at the tail end or so. He started with the Ankwai culture. The Ankwai are our nearest neighbors south. And as you can say they have this Nienman as their major goddess that they worship…. You saw something recorded about this anthill. That is the dwelling place of their god. Normally they have different ways of worship that we’ve seen recorded there. A masquerade will interview women. Women have to come confess everything they have done in life. Interestingly, the men do not confess anything. It is only the women that will line up, and even then they will have half a chicken in their hand, and they will begin to confess everything they have done. I am trying to remember the name of that anthill. It has a name: Matkarem. That is their goddess that they worship.
T-C: And is Patmala [the river goddess who plays a large role in the novel] an actual goddess?
CW: Patmala is somebody that exists only in my imagination, and nowhere else (laughs)
T-C: It seems to fit in with other stories of mammy water spirits and that sort of things. What about the mountain god?
CW: Gungun? Gungun was made up by myself. I just made him up.
T-C: That’s very interesting because there seemed to be a struggle between him and Patmala.
CW:Between him and Patmala. Yes. There are over three of them. Like Nienman. Patmala and Gungun. They were all interested in him, but the two major characters in his life are Patmala and Gungun…. You know there is one interesting thing about the culture of our people here. I don’t know if you noticed that. Because if any food is being prepared for a god or goddess, they normally have a particular grindstone, and there is a law guiding the rule of that grindstone. It is not anything that you grind on it—you only grind what will be used for that occasion. And once it is over, it is kept aside, waiting for the next occasion when it will be used. So that is peculiar to most of our people on the southern plateau.
T-C: So, the Tarok people, where exactly on the Plateau do they live?
CW: We are on the lower Plateau. And interestingly Tarok—Langtang is the only local government that has a single tribe. Like in Jos here you have the Burim, the Miango, the Naraguta. But in both Langtang north and south, it is only Tarok people. And they are non-warriors. Ask anybody around. Although… they say we are too proud, we are too this, we are too that.
T-C: So in the stories that you heard growing up, were there elements of this at well? Were there any specific parts of those stories that you put in the novel?
CW: No, in fact I just sat down one day and imagined all this thing.
T-C: How long did it take you to write?
CW: It took me over a year. The reason is that as I was writing, it came to the point where Poyi, one of the characters that shaped Jiji’s life, you know, it came to the point where they had to separate. He had to die. And I couldn’t find it in my heart to write that, even though it is fiction. So it took me months before I made up my mind and wrote it. Then later on, I felt that the whole thing was not worth anybody’s time. So I just kept the book aside, until my daughter disturbed me so much that I had to pick it up and complete the story.
T-C: So that was in…?
CW: I wrote this since 1990. I wrote this in 1990 and put it aside….The reason I left it for so long—you see that is why piracy is a very wicked thing—there was this Swedish man who said he was interested in it. So, at the time that he came, I gave this script to somebody to edit for me. Each time the man would come to Nigeria, I would go to him to give me and he would say, no, he has not finished working on it. He came the second time, the same thing. So, the third time when the man sent for me, I went and said, ok, you say you are not finished, just give me the script the way it was. He said, no, his secretary had taken it somewhere, and he couldn’t get it. It was not until the [Swedish] man was banned from Nigeria, because he went and produced The Man Died with Wole Soyinka—so it was when he was banned from entering Nigeria—that was when the man came and gave me the script. Not knowing that he himself is interested in it. He asked me to come that we should make a film with it, but I refused. Originally, we made it as a film script. It was the late Mandazi [sp?] who advised me to publish it as a book.
T-C: Would you be interested in having it made as a film now?
CW: Yes, in fact, originally, I wrote it as a film script.
T-C: Do you still have the original script that you wrote?
CW: My house got burnt, nearly got burnt one time. So the whole original script was burnt. If not because this one was with that man, the whole thing would have been burnt.
T-C: So, at least that helped!
CW: Well, it turned out to be a blessing in the end.
T-C: Wow, sorry. Yes, I was thinking as I read this. This would make a nice film, or an animated film, or--
CW: I just took it to this--I don’t know if you know the late Mandazi [sp?], the one that used to produce Behind the Clouds, the soap opera. He is the one that said, no, that I should make it a book, if not, people would pirate it, and I would be left high and dry.
T-C: So maybe if you do the book first and then someone does a film from the book?
CW: Yes, that is what he said. So, if only I can be connected to any of the Film Corporation. Reputable ones, I would be very happy.
T-C: Well, you know if it is published, maybe someone will want to make a film from it, even a children’s film. Even though it’s not a children’s book, I think it could make a film that would be appropriate for children to watch…
CW: You are the tenth person or more that has been telling me this. You know most of the people who read it say “make it into a film, now!” And about five people approached me one day, just in one day, and said that I should write a part two of this thing. That this one is not complete according to them. So I am already on chapter six—Jiji part two. So, this one will be printed as Jiji part one.
T-C: So part two, is that about his marriage and his life after?
CW: Yes, his marriage, and the exodus. You remember I mentioned one island there. So, it will terminate when the whole people settle on the island.
T-C: The other thing I wanted to ask you about. The songs in the book. Did you write the songs or were those Tarok songs?
CW: I wrote the songs. You can see that it is a challenge. I explained that the song is praising Jiji and teasing the dwarf, Nwaka.
T-C: Have you ever written in Tarok or Hausa, or just in English?
CW: Just in English. Actually I am working on [another] one. This one I aim at helping youths to come out of drug addiction, all these things by exposing the ills, I use characters to expose ills.
T-C: Is it a more contemporary story?
CW: Yes.
T-C: So, you have the new project. You have part two of this. Do you have any other works in progress?
CW: I have others in the offing. It’s just to find the time to sit down and finish them. Most of my energy is geared towards finishing the one I am telling you about. Because I hate the way you find children being involved in drugs and so on. So we are working on it with consultants at JUTH, Dr. Audu.
T-C: So what is a brief summary of the story?
CW: I just used characters to depict the various type of drugs, their complications, you understand? The effect on the youth. I used even alcohol, so that the children, as they read, they will see that from drugs, they don’t only end with drugs alone. They either become armed robbers, ritual killers, or even occultic members. They are initiated into most of these things as a result of taking drugs. So, I’ve used different drugs to depict their own peculiar complication. For example, you know this solution that they take, it results in blindness sometimes. Or the Indian hemp, sometimes they go mad, or they even die as a result. I have done some research into various means of how the youth are now taking drugs. You may be with them, but you won’t know-- I can be transacting business with the person around me and not even know that I have just been transacting business. So those are some of the things that I depicted in that write-up, although I have not finished working on it.
T-C: Do you have any other write-ups that you are in the process of working on?
CW: That one and Jiji Part Two, and there is another one, Safiya. In that one I aim to depict the ill effect of unforgiveness. It is going to be good. I know I am the one writing it, but I know it will be good. (laughs) I am on chapter seven, but I will stop that one. I want to finish the others. I have finished my life story. It is called Silent Tears Turned Amazing Grace. I am just waiting for some events to unfold, then I will just complete the book. And I have about twenty songs written down. I am looking for children with whom we can rehearse these things. But money is a problem…. I brought a copy of a song last time [to Jos ANA] to show the people there. That one is very close to my heart. You know I am a children’s evangelist, so I like to do things that will help them. Maybe one day, I will bring some of them for you to see. I have written the “Widow’s Song”, “An Orphan’s Song,” then the “Children’s Plea,” and “Wakar Nijeriya,”—this one is in Hausa. And many others songs about social vices.
T-C: Do you write a lot of songs in Hausa?
CW: Most of them are in Hausa, about social vices. But I need someone to help me, and being in rural areas is a problem.
T-C: When I was reading Jiji, I felt that the rural area really came out. There was a nice sense of the landscape in the book…. So, you’ve talked about things that you want to help people learn, are there lessons in Jiji that you want to bring out?
CW: Well, the lesson in Jiji is. I want people to know that evil is not good. For example, when you read about the Long Pell. And you see the end of it, and some of the comments that Jiji made. He said that he is a friend of the poor but an enemy of the oppressor. That is the lesson of Jiji.
T-C: So, even though Jiji was set in precolonial times, do you feel that there were things that relate to contemporary life?
CW: Only the lesson that you learn from it. Otherwise, I don’t think there is anything that relates. But I also want people to know that in those days this is how the Tarok people are. For example, if you see the dressing of that man [in a photograph she wants to use as the cover for the next edition]. The children will now know that, eh, so this is how our people used to dress. Bows and arrows. Some of them have even forgotten about it. Icir. Most of them don’t know. Odem. Things like that. If you go to Tarok land now, you will hardly see idire. There is something mentioned there: idire. So this will now motivate them to ask what is edire, what is esu? That kind of thing.
T-C: So it kind of teaches them their history?
CW: Ehen
T-C: Well you did a very good job of that. It taught me something. Thank you very much.
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